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Thread: Keyword expansion for geo areas

  1. #11
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    For example, you check your stats and see this:
    sonoma birding 1234
    bird food 1100
    california birding 700
    sonoma wineries 650
    wildelife birding 500

    It'd take you a while to look through the whole list of keywords, sorted by the number of clicks to your site from the SERPs, to find related key phrases.

    What Dave is talking about is that you sort the list alphabetically and get something like:
    sonoma birding 1250
    sonoma wineries 650
    sonoma birding advice 400
    sonoma bird food 200
    sonoma birders 50
    sonoma birding association 5

    This way, you not only find related phrases, but also find what interests people about a certain topic, e.g. sonoma or sonoma birding, if you have a large batch of key phrases to sort through.

    Also, as you look for phrases related to "sonoma birding" and "birding sonoma", which may seem similar, you will find that they may attract different audience, target and respond to different needs. For example, a searcher for 'sonoma birding' is looking for a place or a contact to bird in Sonoma and 'birding sonoma' birder is just looking for specific information about birding in Sonoma.


    By the way. I still think that my method is better than simple alphabetical sorting, because, when you scan the phrase list for related phrases, you check not only phrases that start from the same letter/word, but that contain the phrase/word.

    To collect such an information by sorting the list alphabetically, you'd have to force the keyphrases to sort words within phrases alphabetically and only then sort the phrases alphabetically.

    But then, you'd lose the aspect of intent of the searcher, more or less, as I have demonstrated above.


    Possibly, another way to overcome this restriction, is to get more lists with phrases, sorted by one word, for example:

    1st group
    sonoma birding
    sonoma bird houses
    sonoma bird food

    2nd group
    birding sonoma
    bird houses los angeles
    bird food california


    Then again, we lose the long tail variants of phrases that we wanted to catch, because you'll still need to look at the single list of phrases, be it sorted alphabetically or not.


    Computers can't beat humans.
    Last edited by A.N.Onym; 08-31-2007 at 03:39 AM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.N.Onym View Post
    To be clear, I only sorted alphabetically several times, but been gathering related keyword phrases into one since I started. To find the group, I just narrow down my keyword search from 'used cards' to 'used cars toyota'. Thats from keyword tools, not logs, though. And you still need to look through the long list of keyphrases for 'used cards' to get some ideas.

    I think this approach is very similar and that your approach offers a similar sorting thing, although in logs, not in keyword tools (though you can export to Excel .cvs and do it there).

    This is a summary of what Yuri does. Actually I agree. Doing this is more informative than just an alphabetical sort.

    Since I am using a remote server and can't develop queries specifically for my logs I rely on a log analysis tool. Exporting keywords into a spread sheet allows you to do a variety of sorts....and this would get you to what Yuri is suggesting. Really a great suggestion, Yuri.

    I just started doing this. The advantages are several:

    1. It allows you to see the data in a different way. You may pick up trends from this alphabetical sort that you can't see when looking at the data while sorted numerically.

    Now I picked up one interesting thing by doing this. Lets use an example.

    Imagine that the most popular snack food in the St Louis, Missouri region was
    made by our friend Skitz.

    Skitz's popcorn is sold under the name....Skitzz's Little Ole Popcorn...aka SLOP.

    Everyone in the region wants to buy SLOP. But its only sold in a few special places.

    Now the region includes St Louis, Missouri, and Illinois (just over the border from ST Louis.)

    So I'm Skitzz's webmaster and I'm looking at the traffic data for searches and we have optimized the site for some terms, including a title that says SLOP in Missouri, St. Louis, Illinois and gotten anchor text back links that might say MO Ill Slop and other combinations of the geo terms with all 3 jurisdictions.

    I get searches for St Louis Slop, Illinois Slop, Missouri Slop, Slop in Missouri, Slop in StL, Illinois Slop, Ill Slop, Mo slop, St Louis and Mo Slop, etc etc. etc.

    Now I may get a lot of searches that start with the word SLOP and then are followed by geo areas such as Missouri, Illinois, Mo (initials for Missouri,) Ill (initials for Illinois) etc.

    If I search on alpha basis, or using Yuri's method with Slop followed by another word I'd find that there are a lot of searches hitting my site for all three major jurisdictions.

    Since there are a huge number of ways to search on that basis including Ill Mo Slop, Mo Ill Slop, Slop in ST Louis MO, etc. etc. I never see more than a couple of the particular variations when looking at keywords sorted numerically.

    On the other hand when I look at Slop from an alpha perspective and see all the 1's and 2's searches with different variations of the 3 important geographical areas I realize that a large number of searchers in the St Louis metropolitan region may well search for a service using more than one Geographical area.

    That is exactly the kind of thing I found for my site. I only picked it up via the alpha type listing. I couldn't see it otherwise.

    The simplest answer is that looking at things alphabetically may enable you to see trends and combos of words that you wouldn't see when looking at them in numerical order.

    RMC puts it well. It just allows you to see things in a different perspective.

  3. #13
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    Yeah, but you also need to check what people are searching and finding on your site from phrases starting with Il, Missouri and so forth. Basically, you'd get this list from the words that follow SLOP in phrases starting with Slop, but that won't be a complete list (though a pretty thorough one). You'll need to look at the bigger list still

  4. #14
    I GET IT!!!
    Thank you, Rand, Yuri and Dave.
    I really appreciate you taking the time to simplify that a bit, and show examples. I'm afraid I sometimes get lost without summary-type statements.

    This is very interesting!
    Miriam

  5. #15
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    Alright so now that we've got that out of the way, who wants some SLOP?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by earlpearl View Post
    On the other hand, Pittbug just moved from Pittsburgh. He could tell us if consumers in that area would shop in Ohio and Pennsylvania or not. The multi-jurisdiction approach would work in some areas but not others.
    Sorry, just found this call out...

    There's no hard and fast rule on geo searches and the long tail. It's all about the business, understanding the product/service and it's usual draw. For example, when dealing with a storage company, one of the factors is not physical distance from the location i.e. 5, 10 ,20 mile radius. They can also use drive time as a metric, which obviously has you breaking out a map and looking for highways and possible areas of congestion - This tactic is great for ppc, since you can target other location names. Of course this is only for local business, for out of town you just have to target the location name.

    I never worked with any local Ohio businesses that would draw from Pittsburgh, but I doubt there would be many because there really isn't much once you get into Ohio - unless there's some specialty store in some small town. The only one that I know for sure would be the new Cabelas in WV, but I found out about that store from traditional media.
    Find your company listing on Manta.com and claim it for free - upload a logo, add detailed info, contact info and (seo friendly) links

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by earlpearl View Post
    I stumbled into a discovery while looking at my analytics.

    While glancing at keyword phrases I inadvertantly clicked on a drop down menu I had never tried before and sorted phrases by keywords rather than by click totals.

    It knocked me out and gave me a better understanding of the impact of long tail...and specifically how applications of the long tail for local sites (geo oriented sites), or long tail sites can be very effective. In fact I had finding that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere else but could be significant for many local sites in particular regions.

    ..................................
    .................................
    ...............................

    In any case, when reviewing keyword phrases in analytics....don't just do what I've been doing for the past 3 or 4 years....and always look at the default sort by # of visits. Change and review keyword phrases by word or phrase. You may find some interesting results.
    This is how we do it day in and day out.
    Last edited by kichus; 07-20-2008 at 10:12 PM.

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  9. #19
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    Keyword expansion is the act of adding new keywords to your current keyword list and search campaigns, so that you rank for more keywords and pull in more traffic. Keywords are the backbone of your search marketing efforts, and a stagnant keyword list is as dangerous as a stagnant business.
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  10. #20
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    Keyword expansion is the act of adding new keywords to your current keyword list and search campaignss, so that you rank for more keywords and pull in more traffic. Keywords are the backbone of your search marketing efforts, and a stagnant keyword list is as dangerous as a stagnant business.
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